"When I give, I give myself." -- Walt Whitman
Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 10:34 AM
[Editor's Note: After posting a note last night about the reports of terrible performance by CAD software on Windows Vista, I turned to a knowledgeable industry veteran who recently became available to talk freely. When I asked Evan Yares for his view on what's happening, he sent the following reply.]

Microsoft Windows Vista was released for worldwide distribution on January 30. The very next day, reports started popping up about serious performance problems with CAD programs running on Vista. In an article on his WorldCAD Access blog, Ralph Grabowski says “Wow! Vista Runs CAD 80% slower,” pointing to benchmarks published by Tom’s Hardware Guide. Several readers jumped in, speculating about the source of the problem.


Before damning Microsoft for having completely screwed up, it might be worthwhile to consider that neither Microsoft nor the major CAD vendors are run by idiots. I can’t imagine Jim Heppelmann (Chief Product Officer of PTC) standing up in front of a crowd of users, and telling them to use a version of Windows that runs Pro/E 80% slower.  (It’s not only because I think Heppelmann is smarter than that, it’s because Pro/E users are probably the toughest crowd in the CAD industry.)


The claim that Vista runs CAD 80% slower simply doesn’t hold up to reasonable scrutiny. Looking at the benchmarks run by Tom’s Hardware, the only one to report such distressing numbers is SPECviewperf 9.03—which relies upon OpenGL. What the authors of the article didn’t explain particularly well is that, out of the box, Vista supports OpenGL as a software layer sitting on top of Direct3D, creating a nasty performance problem. The solution is to use the installable client drivers provided by either NVIDIA or ATI (both of which include high-performance OpenGL support), rather than the “certified” drivers that come with Vista. The authors of the Tom’s Hardware article didn’t do this.


There are legitimate reasons to be concerned about using Vista as a platform for CAD, not the least of which is that it has demanding minimum hardware requirements. Acceptable CAD performance under Vista is going to require new top-of-the-line hardware. Yet, even with the right hardware, CAD performance under Vista is going to remain an open question for a while longer. Microsoft pushed hard to get Vista shipped, but important components, such as display drivers and development tools, are still buggy and incomplete. It will likely be many months before these problems will be shaken out.

Guest writer Evan Yares is the former executive director of the Open Design Alliance and, before that, a CAD industry analyst.


Feedback

# re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out

2/2/2007 1:21 PM by Bill Fane
...but I thought that the original promise of Windows was that it freed us from the hassle of having to install specific hardware drivers! Isn't that what Plug-and-Play is supposed to be all about?

# re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out

2/2/2007 9:23 PM by Franck Hervet
hi,
i can go to ati or nvidia but they don't have driver for all card!
Fire gl from ati have nothing for vista. it's a card for Cad!

# re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out

2/7/2007 7:08 AM by Matthew Fuller
Forget slower performance: Windows Vista doesn't support the latest (or any) verion of AutoCAD or its family products (ADT/ABS, etc). Autodesk are very much brushing it under the carpet, offering no statement or help other than "Vista doesn't support it". For many in the CAD industry, I would say this is a problem.

We have just bought a new PC in the office (we generally get one a month to upgrade the oldest machine), and were completely unable to source a WinXP to go with it! Some have pointed out that ADT will "run as administrator" in Vista, but there are many features adversely affected, e.g. no network plotters in ADT (even though they are in Windows), and relative XRef paths not supported (which causes havoc if you use the Project Navigator system on larger projects). No doubt Microsoft don't care, and Autodesk will simply insist we wait till the next release later this year, but as seasoned subscription users will have found, every new release comes with its own new set of bugs, and then the Autodesk tech support guys will tell us that perhaps we shouldn't have upgraded after all!!

Is anyone aware of possible patches/hotfixes/service packs in the pipeline to ease the problem? Failing that, perhaps we should halt all upgrading for the next year until we are ready to do Vista and ADT2008 all at once. A shot in the foot for Microsoft and Autodesk!

# re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out

2/8/2007 2:18 PM by zxys
"but important components, such as display drivers and development tools, are still buggy and incomplete. It will likely be many months before these problems will be shaken out."

geez,..yeah, let's wait,.. ya think!?

but,.. wait, that there gui is so purtiy. yeah, that'll make me/us productive!?

Incredible, absolutely incredible.

# re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out

2/12/2007 1:20 AM by 3DCADResources
I feel with a decent machine vista's performance is not so bad. After all they have added so many new features with new aeroglass interface. It takes few months for us to get used to it.

# re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out

2/13/2007 2:31 AM by dotGt
>>The authors of the Tom’s Hardware article didn’t do this.

This seems false if you look at the driver installed, it is a version that supports natively openGL (please look at Ati's release notes)

# re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out

2/14/2007 12:46 PM by Trevor
Actually, I find it hard to blame on it all on Microsoft. Afterall, Vista is actually a vast improvement over XP and the new interface is sweet. It's Autodesk fault for not being up front about it. Eventually, they will come around and fix it, I'm sure. In the mean time, we're all stuck with this incompatibility issue.

# re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out

2/22/2007 8:00 AM by Windreaper
If youve been around with MS OSes for a while, lets say DOS, then youve learned one thing for sure:

Never upgrade to a .0 version.

And that's true for most of their applications as well.

So whats the problem? Same old thing, isnt it.

# re: Windows Vista Problems With CAD Need to Be Sorted Out

2/28/2007 12:41 PM by Huh?
Unless your stuck with buying a new workstation with Vista OS I think Windreaper's comments hold true.
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